Pharrell Williams is sitting with a dozen or so kids around a doughnut-shaped table filled with plastic Lego bricks. As a camera crew records their interactions, the 51-year-old singer, rapper, songwriter and producer asks each child to tell him where they like to learn; the kids answer politely, though nearly all of them are paying more attention to the brightly colored structures they’re busy assembling. That hardly bothers Williams: After all, he’s here at a brand-activation event in Hollywood on a recent afternoon to promote his new Lego movie of a biopic, “Piece by Piece.”
Directed by Morgan Neville — known for the Oscar-winning “20 Feet From Stardom” and for “Won’t You Be My Neighbor?,” about the life and work of Fred Rogers — “Piece by Piece” traces Williams’ journey from a Virginia Beach housing project to the pinnacle of pop music as the co-creator of sexy, funk-slicked hits by the likes of Britney Spears (“I’m a Slave 4 U”), Jay-Z (“I Just Wanna Love U [Give It 2 Me]”), Usher (“U Don’t Have to Call”), Beyoncé (“Work It Out”), Justin Timberlake (“Rock Your Body”) and Snoop Dogg (“Drop It Like It’s Hot”).
The movie explores Williams’ creative partnership with Chad Hugo, the childhood friend with whom he formed the Neptunes production duo, and his marriage to Helen Lasichanh, with whom he shares four children; it also digs into the artistic and emotional awakening Williams says he experienced about a decade ago when three of his songs — Robin Thicke’s “Blurred Lines,” Daft Punk’s “Get Lucky” and his solo smash “Happy” — blew up after a period in which he admits he’d gotten a bit high on his own supply. And it does it all in gleaming Lego animation that gives the documentary a peculiar poignancy.
“I never would’ve made this film this way — or made any film this way — if it wasn’t for him,” Neville says of his subject. “In that sense, I feel like I had the experience of being produced by Pharrell.”
Williams, who lives between Miami and Paris (where he holds down a sideline as a creative director at Louis Vuitton), discussed the movie, his music and his remarkably levelheaded outlook in an all-white green room at the Lego event. He wore flared jeans, a pink sweatshirt and pink sneakers, and his gold grills glittered as he spoke.
Does talking to kids come naturally to you?
I mean, I think it’s natural to talk to humans, and they’re the next generation — the Mars generation. But I don’t see this movie as a kids’ exercise. I see it as a human exercise that speaks to the inner child. That’s what Lego does.
What’s it like to see yourself as a Lego figurine?
When you hear your voice and you see a Lego character, it objectifies a situation — makes it so it’s not so personal, so you can see beyond your personal flaws and see your soul’s intention in a way you might not be able to if you were looking at an actual video. That’s been great for me.
Did you ever worry about the movie becoming a Lego commercial?
I never had a concern or worry about this project.
Period.
You worry when you think there’s a possibility that it can go wrong. This was the sum of all yesses. Everyone was always in full support of what it is that we were trying to do.
It is, though, definitely a celebration of Lego.
I think it’s a celebration of the transmutation of hubris to humility.
Let me think about that for a second.
It’s never too late to embrace your dreams and build it piece by piece.
Pusha T says in the movie that the Clipse song “All Eyes on Me,” which you produced, is the worst thing he ever recorded. You rarely hear an artist say that.
Truth is unusual to hear, huh?
In a Hollywood-type situation? I think that’s fair to say.
I’m not a Hollywood guy.
You agree that it’s not a great Clipse record.
Yeah.
Did you know it was bad at the time you made it?
No.
The film feels defined by your looking back with clarity at earlier parts of your life.
It’s not me looking back, it’s Morgan looking back. He’s telling the story, not me.
Was it easy for you to —
Give him autonomy? Absolutely. Because I saw what he did with Mister Rogers. I was like, OK, this guy can have my story, and he can tell it the way he sees fit, down to the songs that go in, the interviews that go in. I trusted him 100%.
I was surprised that Chad Hugo is in the movie.
Why?
Because he recently sued you over control of the Neptunes’ name.
I love him.
I wasn’t sure how he feels about you.
That’s not my concern. With admiration and love, reciprocation isn’t necessary. Nothing will ever change my reverence and appreciation for all the time that we worked together. Nothing will ever change me wishing him the absolute best.
Right, but that doesn’t mean he’d want to take the time out of his day to be in your movie.
He did.
You know the last record you guys made together?
I do so much music, I don’t remember.
Whatever it was, do you think it’ll be the last Neptunes production?
Yeah.
Does that make you sad?
I don’t know what you’re looking for. I’m telling you unequivocally: I love the music and I love the time that we worked together. I’m forever grateful, and I will always wish him the best. That’s where I’m at with him.
In the movie, “Blurred Lines” is framed as a high point in your career, which was something else that surprised me, given that you’ve expressed some ambivalence about the song in recent years. You told GQ it embodied “a chauvinist culture in our country.”
But it happened, though. What I said in the past has nothing to do with Morgan putting together a story of all the things that’s happened in my life.
Did being sued by Marvin Gaye’s estate for cribbing from his music in “Blurred Lines” affect your ability to enjoy Gaye’s stuff?
Why would it?
Because people are immature and they get upset about things!
Am I immature? Am I upset about anything?
You certainly don’t seem like it.
So what does that have to do with me? You’re talking about other people. I’m saying: That’s not my energy.
How did you reach a place where you’re not thinking about old slights and grievances?
That comes along with humility. When you take your ego out of a situation, you can see things very clearly. The things that trigger the ego aren’t important. If you were to take them all and add them up, the sum would be nothing.
Has that mind-set shaped your music?
It’s shaped my music; it shaped this film; it’s shaped everything.
Take a song you did recently: SZA’s “Hit Different.” Is that a record you could have made in, say, 2008?
I could only make it when I made it.
I should’ve known you’d say that.
It happens to be the truth. Look, entitlement begets entitlement, and struggling begets appreciation. Entitlement is a problem because when things don’t work out, you fall apart. And because you haven’t struggled, you don’t know how to appreciate — you have zero coping skills. I never want to feel that again. I always want to look at a situation with gratitude first because then you know what you really have. And when you create from a place of appreciation, it hits different. I create differently because of it. I write differently because of it. I program and play differently, and I compose differently, and I raise my children differently.
That emotional state seems like something you’d want to instill in your children, but of course they haven’t led the life you have. And as a parent, you want to spare them —
No, you don’t. When people say, “Oh, I don’t want my kids to struggle the way I did,” those kids are usually the ones that end up in a life of crime, a life of addiction — very challenging lives. Why? Because they didn’t learn how to struggle. The hard experiences that you lived in your adolescence and when you were a young adult, that’s what made you what you are. So you want guided struggle in your kids’ lives. Guided struggle.
What’s that look like?
It could mean anything.
But in the case of your family.
Volunteering, feeding the homeless, serving the terminally ill — all the way to the other end of the scope of only being able to get things through an allowance that’s triggered by the good work that you put into the house or your chores or your achievements in education. Nothing should be for free.
You’re a very privileged person. Your instinct as a parent isn’t to give your kids everything you can?
No way. That didn’t make me what I am. You said “your instinct.” Whose instinct is it? Is it the kids’ instinct?
As a dad, I was imagining myself in your position.
Oh — “self.” You’re being selfish.
But I’m also trying to envision the material comforts available to you.
It’s poison.
Poison?
Poison.
I’ve never been to your house, but I doubt you live like a monk.
I don’t, but my kids don’t have access to everything. They have to earn it. They have to understand how life works. And the societal gravity on my children because they’re Black is twice as hard as it is on your children, if they’re not of color. It’s three times as hard on my daughter, because girls bring life into this world and watch it f—ing get taken all the time.
With that in mind, what’s it been like to raise your kids in Europe as opposed to America?
This was supposed to be a light and lovely conversation, but you’re hitting me with all these other things. That’s fine. But if you’re gonna ask me these questions, I’ll tell you that the world is a colonial snow globe.
You’re saying America’s problems aren’t quarantined to America.
Just look around the planet.
OK, something light and lovely: Did you enjoy being a judge on “The Voice”?
I learned a lot on “The Voice.” I learned that “The Voice,” in my estimation, it’s a country show. I didn’t know that until I started seeing how Blake [Shelton] was just smoking everything. Smoking in the sense that he was winning the wins — that’s what I mean. What a sweet, amazing, good-energy guy who’s so hilarious. Him and Adam [Levine], they kept me cracking up the entire time. I enjoyed that.
Would you do another TV show?
Television’s not for me.
Do you like performing live?
No. I’d rather create. I like writing and I like producing — that’s my sweet spot. I love the iterative process. I love when the universe sends you something. Waking up in the morning and traveling all the time — it’s not my thing.
I went back and looked at you singing “Get Lucky” on the Grammys in 2014 with Daft Punk and Stevie Wonder and Nile Rodgers.
I didn’t say it wasn’t fun. But it’s not something I want to spend my time doing.
Because time is finite and you can only do so many things.
There’s that. More importantly, there are people who are so much better at it.
Like?
Beyoncé — come on. The robots were amazing when they performed. Michael Jackson was unreal. Prince was otherworldly. Coltrane was just scary — you can’t even put that into words. I’m not any of those entities.
You’ve got a vibe. In that Grammys performance, you have your hand in your pocket — it’s appealingly casual.
That’s low on the spectrum of people who are vibrant and really have a light that’s inspiring.
Last one: For you as a creator, is there a difference between making something that’s functionally free, like music, and making something that’s prohibitively expensive, like a designer handbag?
Creativity is creativity for me. I’m just honored to be able to do it on different platforms.
I guess I’m wondering what it’s like to make a thing that everybody can access versus a thing that very few can access.
Those aren’t the kind of questions I ponder because I don’t look at life through those type of lenses. I just look at it like I have the opportunity to create, and this is what comes along with this opportunity and this what comes along with that opportunity.
Thank you for the time.
No, thank you. I hope I gave you what you needed. I’m just somewhere else.
You don’t seem somewhere else to me.
I am. I’m in a place of gratitude.
You sound apologetic about it.
Well, when we were talking, you were like, “I knew you were gonna say that,” and “Why are you so calm?” That’s why I’m apologizing.
I didn’t mean to come at you with an accusatory energy.
You didn’t. I think it was just a little hard for you to grapple with at the very beginning.
That’s probably true.
I just want you to know that I’m grateful, man. I’m Black — I come from the mud. I don’t have time to be upset about this or triggered about that. Like I said, take all of those things and add them up, and what can I do about it except say, “Thank you, God”? You know how many people wish they had just one song that 10 people cared about? The idea that I’ve had all this experience humbles me.
Why doesn’t it make you feel like you’re the king of the world?
Because I’m the beneficiary of what was written. Some people think they’re the book. I’m not a word, I’m not a paragraph, I’m not a page, I’m not a chapter — I’m totally not the book. I’m a comma, and I get to exist.
